Liar Liar

Discovery and disclosure #1 full of lies was on December 31, 2016 after I read a very sexual email from The Elf. I was told that the pictures she referenced in the email must have been pictures of him on his work website (hmmm ya, because a head shot really gets me going…). After threatening to message her on Facebook he admitted he had sent her dick pics and she sent him pics of her. Any video’s? No never. I never believed there were no videos so I kept asking and asking and he swore on my life, no never. And who was Ms. First Name Only who was also on this email? Oh, just The Elf’s friend who was concerned for her. Well isn’t she nice. So you never had anything sexual with Mr. First Name Only? No never.

Discovery and disclosure #2 full of lies was via suicide letter that went something like this in an envelope addressed to The only Woman I have ever loved:

“I am not the man you think I am. During our entire relationship I either had women come over to my old house or I would go to their house and we would have sex and sometimes just hang out (NB, this is the term he uses for oral sex). I left you twice because I thought I was in love with 2 of the women.

You are the only woman I have ever loved, I am so sorry. I’ll love you forever.

Forget me.

The lie in the suicide letter was that he loved me. What he did and how he treated me was not love.

5 months later he admitted to having oral sex with Ms. First Name Only multiple times after I repeatedly asked for the truth. 8 months later he admitted to getting videos from The Elf after I repeatedly asked for the truth. I’ve squeezed the truth out of him so many times after repeatedly asking for the truth – even as recently as 2 weeks ago – I’m shocked he has anything left.

I can’t even remember all of the lies he has told to protect himself before DDays and after DDays, and really can’t stomach the anger I get when I think about it, but I can assure you, trickle truth has caused repeated trauma and has deterred rebuilding trust over and over and over. Each and every time he lied and then later told the truth, it made me question EVERYTHING again. Over and over and over. It’s also taking me longer to recover from because I’m still feeling anxiety from the revealed truths 2 weeks ago.

As I lay in bed last night sleepless, I decided I need to come to terms with a few things:

  1. I want the truth about EVERYTHING including every little detail. Why? because I don’t want to be in the dark, I don’t want them to have their “special secrets” (FUCK UGH) and I don’t want any new truths, and I have a right to know.
    • Terms I will never know everything and every little detail because he will continue to lie about them, and what good is it to know them anyway? It’s not going to change anything except my opinion of him even more, and it will only cause me more anger and trauma.
  2. I want him to speak the words of everything that he did. Why? So he can see the pain on my face.
    • Terms – he’s already said he fucked and thought he was in love with other women, what more can he say? Will telling me he went down on that one 4 times instead of 2 hurt me any more or less? Or that he thought he loved 3 instead of just 2? Or that he stopped communication with that one on XX and not XX? Or that there were 11, 12, 13, women and not 10? No.
  3. He is still lying and lying by omission to protect himself
    • Terms – he will never tell me the truth about it all. I need to trust if I am still questioning something, that what I believe to be the truth is the truth because I haven’t been wrong yet. He is 100% still lying and I know this and need to accept this in order to move on. If I can’t accept it, then move on without him. I need to trust myself .
  4. Throughout our 7 years together pre-discovery, all he did was lie lie lie
    • Terms – He can’t change that. All he is doing is being truthful and transparent about his actions since DDays.

Can I stop pining over what I want and think I deserve, and face the reality of these new terms so I can start accepting what was and is?

I hope so.

 

 

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32 thoughts on “Liar Liar

  1. Ugh SSA 😦 I’ve read so many different approaches regarding disclosure.. For me, while I wanted to know everything and thought i deserved to know it all, it would have been like lemon juice on an already infected wound and would have had no positive outcome. Additionally, i would likely still wonder after that, if there is more that he hasn’t shared… after all, he lied before. Does he maintain that he’s shared it all already when you bring it up?

    I like the terms you added. I think its important to keep in mind, too, that together you and Mr P are on a new journey now – a path that doesn’t include any of the other people and is paved exclusively for the two of you.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. My dear wonderme12, yes, your last sentence is true.

      He has been adamant since DDay 1 that he’s shared everything, but even he will admit that’s not true. He lies to protect himself because he is so terrified of losing me. He also thinks he’s protecting me by not being honest about the disgusting things he did and with whom. Why admit to a picture but not a video? Why volunteer that he went away for a weekend with one, but not to taking her out for lunch? It just makes me question the truth, why he’s lying about such stupid shit, and what else he is lying about.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Could it be that he doesn’t want to relive or remember the details himself? D would have rather blocked it all out and not be able to remember any of it. Maybe its a coping mechanism – D was so embarrassed at his behavior, and admitting it to me seemed to make it worse (i didn’t really care at the time if it made it worse for him, i just wanted to know what the fuck was going on).

        When i did once ask for details about his October tryst, he asked me if I was sure this is what I wanted to hear right now, which made me really think about it and decline. I grappled as recently as last week with this, but i think i was looking for a reason to be angry and not just sad anymore.

        Maybe, though, its similar for Mr. P? Not making excuses at all of course – but maybe what you both need right now is to work on the now, and not try to figure anything else out at the very moment?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Yes, he gets so angry (as in holes in my wall, broken closet and door frame, broken lamps) at himself when we talk about it (AKA me spit firing questions at him), that he goes to that very dark guilt/shame place and he just can’t go there anymore. I know this, but as you say, I just want to know what the fuck was going on.

        In reality I do know what was going on, I just don’t know everything, and I’m a very detailed, articulate and meticulous person. Based on our counselling session 2 weeks ago that I’m still recovering from, I really shouldn’t want to know these details, but I don’t want to be the fool again. This is my newly acquired anxiety that I never had before DDay talking.

        I know all I need to know. He fucked and thought he loved other women. How much worse can it get.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. I completely 100% understand..

        Our heads get the best of us, creating more questions, more what-ifs, and more wondering. It really can’t get any worse. So there’s that :/

        I know we’ve shared thoughts on the law of attraction.. have you read/listened to Dr. Wayne Dyer at all? I kind of threw myself into his teachings about 3 months ago, and lately I have felt a bit of a shift in my thinking. I am hoping to blog about it tonight.

        This is from his website – i visit it daily & read it over and over and over, and it has helped to calm my anxiety and sadness.

        https://www.drwaynedyer.com/blog/how-to-forgive-someone-in-15-steps/

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Yes I grew up with Wayne’s teachings, and Mr. Perfect listens to his CD’s everyday in his car and I listen to something similar. He’s really wonderful it’s so true.

        Even though I’m valid in my feelings, I’m usually much more optimistic. I think I’m just having one of those days – no sleep plus PMS 😦

        Liked by 2 people

  2. Just wanted to add… i don’t think he was lying when he said he loved you in the suicide. I view the addicting addiction as sort of separate and apart from what he feels about you.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. You’re probably right, but it’s hard for me to totally understand. If I asked him what love means, none of it would apply to how he was with me in the past. Just last night we were talking about death (yours and my least favorite subject!) and he started bawling telling me he would be so heartbroken without me, So today, yes 100% I know he loves me, but in the past he 100% only thought about himself.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Geewhiz.. adding sorry for my terrible grammar check!! should have said the following:

    i don’t think he was lying when he said he loved you in the letter. I view the addicting behavior as sort of separate and apart from what he feels about you.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I’m eternally grateful that K called C and broke the cycle of shame. It was killing me and I often fantasized about getting run over by a truck…and then I thought about C & K showing up at the funeral to grieve and then learning how badly I betrayed both of their trust. I shake my head in disgust at myself when I think on this…

    However, K calling C reinforced the reality that I had no dignity left. Carrying secrets and lies warped my perception of self.

    I long to sit with C and tell her everything…but I also know, knowing everything won’t make a difference. I know who I belong to and where but that chapter is closed and my only option is to move forward and write a new, better and more vulnerable chapter. I’m free of the secrets and lies and their ability to blackmail and shame me.

    I told a friend recently, that I know my lies were about not trusting C’s love for me. I thought I had to lie because if I told her the truth she would see I’m fallible and selfish. I didn’t think she would love me if I failed her. There is a level of vulnerability I was unable to go to…

    I will regret my lies the rest of my life.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Yes part (or maybe all) of Mr. P’s continual lying is that he doesn’t want me to see what a monster he was, I do understand that.

      I don’t think he trusts that I will be able to see past the monster, and I don’t trust his truth. So how to do we have trust? Hopefully my terms help.

      I don’t know RC, every morning when I’m in the shower I feel so sad and tell myself I won’t be able to stay with him. But goddamn it I want to, I love him but I’m so confused. I’m usually a really together woman, but this has me questioning so much.

      I tell myself that Mr. P is less likely to ever cheat again than someone I start a new relationship with. Would you ever cheat again?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I’ve already failed that test once. I’d like to believe I wouldn’t fail it again.

        However, I don’t trust myself and why should anyone else?

        We want our loved ones to live up to incredibly high expectations and so when they fall they have every reason not to be honest about it. There are so many complex dynamics in being human and living in a fractured world full of fractured people.

        I can say, if it wasnt for my unfinished biz with K, my desire to be C’s everything always, and my own stubborn pride I would never have cheated,.kept secrets or lied to her.

        However, I still did.

        I would never cheat again on C.

        A friend asked me, knowing my personal history intimately, if I thought my history of loss and abandonment had a role. I’ve had to really think on that – because I’ve never given it weight before. How I felt about C scared me. I’ve never, ever felt that way about another human being. I think it scared me to be so vulnerable to one person like C.

        So here is the quandry, if I’m human and not a monster, knowing discovery was inevitable (which I did) was I testing C’s willingness to accept me wholly?

        Like

      2. Mr. P felt the same way about me, as you do about C. Now I realize the 2 situations are different because you’re not a sex addict, but he said I was the only woman in his life who could hurt him. I’m the only one he really never wanted to see the real him so he couldn’t get too close and always had to have one foot in, one foot out. I idolized him and really shouldn’t have because he wasn’t giving me much, but I did nonetheless and maybe because even his less than 100% was still better than most of what my friends got.

        In other words, but the same as yours, he was scared of getting hurt or being vulnerable with me.

        I don’t think you were testing C’s full acceptance because you knew there was a very real possibility the test would fail. I think you just didn’t think it would be discovered and you wanted to have sex with K, and you also loved and wanted to have sex with C. Maybe it’s as simple that you wanted to be admired and have acceptance from 2 women.

        I thought I had read on your blog that you and C had an arrangement that you could have sex with other women provided it was protected and with her permission. Did I dream that? If true, did you have sex with other women besides K that C never knew about?

        Liked by 1 person

      3. A lot there.

        – I never had any other partners than C or K
        – Yes, that was the agreement as long as C knew
        – K is my ex-wife

        My marriage to K was complex and often unhealthy. It is why I left…without throwing her under the bus, I was pretty unhappy in our marriage. It’s why I left.

        In the middle of the first act, I realized discovery was inevitable…because I knew K.

        I blew it.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Mine coming out of my marriage…and no as long as I took care of her needs.

        And those were there terms she agreed too. There are a few other dynamics and it was always open to negotiating.

        Like

      5. None taken. Good question.

        It’s more complex than I can publically answer. My personal troll has been stalking all my public comments. He doesn’t need to know the details of C and my agreement.

        If you are interested I’ll DM you an conversation.

        Like

  5. More disclosures? Yuck. I admire you for keeping it together as well as you are.

    I’m worried for you though about his anger and the breaking things, etc. Handsome has anger issues but he’s just a screamer, nothing physical, and yet it’s scary enough. That must be frightening for you and unsettling (at the least) for your daughter. Are you safe?

    ❤️

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Not really a new disclosure per se. It was that in the past he told me he stopped talking to the first one he thought he loved (when he broke up with me for 2 months 5 years ago) when he ended it with he before he begged for me back, but it came out in counselling that they continued to sext after we got back together. I didn’t ask if they continued to have sex because I was shocked. So I knew about her, but the details have changed because I’m guessing he can’t remember the lies he’s told about the lies. I can’t make excuses or guesses about the why’s anymore.

      The anger, I never EVER saw this man angry in over 7 years pre dday 2. He never raised his voice, never swore at me, he was always very gentle and sweet. Except for his anxiety and breakups, we were literally 2 caterpillars in a cocoon beautifully and peacefully living a connected life (I thought). His anger came to light after he came home from the hospital from his suicide attempt. I spit fire questions at him and he feels cornered and acts like a cornered animal, so I try not to do that anymore. I asked him a question this morning (because I had a dream) and he was very calm and gentle, because I gave him a warning I needed to talk and spoke gently. We don’t talk about this when the girls are home, they’ve seen enough with my heartache from all of the breakups and my sheer panic with the suicide attempt. I can’t have them exposed to anymore. He got angry at the counsellors office 2 weeks ago too and slammed his hand on the chair, so she calmed him down. I am totally safe thank you for asking xo

      The counsellor told us in the past that lust to anger is a natural emotional circuit (we all have it but can manage it), so without the lust, he has anger. It makes sense but it needs to be taken care of. I’ll use my kids gloves with the questions to try and keep the anger at bay.

      I guess my point of the post was that the details and timelines of each and every encounter don’t really change what he has done, and is only causing me anxiety and trauma, so I need to accept what I know and keep it in the past, or not and move on. I know he crossed many boundaries and know many details, the information I have is enough for me to make a decision about my future. So I need to stop for the sake of my own sanity.

      How are you doing Hun? Sounds like you have had some really great counselling sessions?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I’m right where you are on the details and timelines. I don’t really gain any clarity by repeatedly asking, and it probably doesn’t matter. Infidelity is what it is, regardless of how many times each act occurred or precisely when. I’ve ceased much (not all) of the questioning unless I’m asking about something new.

        Glad to hear you are safe and sound. 😊
        I hoped as much but just wanted to be sure.

        We just had our first joint session with a CSAT, but she’s going to be starting maternity leave any day now. She gave us good homework to do though, so we’ll keep busy while she’s gone. I really liked her though. I think she’ll be good for us. It sounds as though you guys have found someone great as well.
        ❤️

        Like

      2. So glad you have found someone both of you can connect with, but too bad (for you but congrats to her!) she’s leaving! How long is mat leave in the US? It’s 18 months where I Live, so I hope for your sake she’s back with you soon.

        Can I ask, what is the homework you have to do?

        Liked by 1 person

  6. You are a much stronger and kinder woman than I am. Knowing he is still lying and/or withholding the truth to my questioning just fuels my distrust and resentment. Causes me sleepless nights wondering what he’s hiding, who he’s protecting.
    Unfortunately, that doesn’t allow forgiveness or healing. I was only dealing with a single long term affair, but with no true disclosure, still together 33 yrs later but marriage never recovered the intimacy.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s so sweet of you to say, but I certainly don’t feel stronger. I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that he minimizes/lies/omits because he doesn’t want me to hurt any further…well, and also so he doesn’t lose me. He is utterly disgusted so that gives me some peace for the future, but I guess he wouldn’t say he thinks about what he did and it turns him on, so, I’m in the same boat as you with the distrust. I really hope trust and intimacy can be rebuilt based on his current actions in time. I certainly don’t want to be feeling this way 33 years later ☹️

      How have you been managing all this time?

      Like

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